Antonio Centeno The Branding Summit Transcript
Navid: Hey, what’s up, everybody? I’m your host, Navid Moazzez. And welcome to The Branding Summit. I am very excited to be joined by Antonio Centeno today.
He is the Founder of a very awesome blog I’ve been following for a while called Real Men Real Style. And it’s really full of so many great articles.
And I was impressed when I came across I don’t know really how. I think it was an interview maybe with David Siteman Garland, The Rise To The Top way back. And I’ve been following you like from time to time.
And then when I started my brand, I just saw like you explored with YouTube and all this kind of stuff. So, I felt completely natural to kind of invite you on here after Mark Adams who’s kind of introduced us. [Laughter] And so, I’m so happy to have you on The Branding Summit.
Antonio: Well, thank you very much, Navid. And it is a pleasure to be here and I look forward to adding value to your audience.
Navid: Yeah, definitely. I mean I find your story very inspiring in how you built everything from kind of ground zero. You’re from a small town and –
Navid: …you started actually with a business called A Tailored Suit. But now, obviously, you’re building more of the personal brand side of things that have – that the Real Men Real Style which is your main business right now. So, can you tell us a bit –
Navid: …the moment when you started to focus more on your personal brand and kind of the transition?
Antonio: Sure. Well, I started off in I guess in the online world in about 2007 with my first company, A Tailored Suit. And I grew that business for quite a few years, about three years. And it was a struggle. It is something where it was in the clothing industry. I didn’t come from a clothing background before that. I – my professional experience was in the United States Marine Corps. I spent five years there. I went and gotten my MBA at the University of Texas. And I lived abroad in Kiev, Ukraine.
But then when I returned to the states, I wanted to do something a bit different, a bit unique. And that was when I started A Tailored Suit. I went in that and if anyone’s familiar with Andrew Warner over at Mixergy, I think I started off more of a mercenary in the sense of I saw opportunity and I really wanted to capitalize on it.
And so, started off my first online, this online custom clothier, I thought really adding value. And I was but it was hard in the sense of how do I get customers to this little website, you know, in my corner of the web. And it didn’t help that I was located in Wittenberg, Wisconsin which is just a population of just over a thousand people. So, how was I going to do it?
So, content creation in using content I feel would be a great way. It’s not that I really figure that out. I simply read a book called the Search. And in that book, they talked about how Sergey and Larry over at Google are actually, their goal was to index the world’s information. I figured okay, if that’s the goal of Google, then if I provide great information, I’ll be able to get people to my little custom clothier.
And sure enough, we put out some great articles. We started getting quite a bit of traffic initially a couple hundred a day, then about a thousand a day, then 2,000 a day. I think at the height, I was getting about just over 3,000 people a day to a little custom clothier website because they were coming in for the content.
And then I started writing for another website called The Art of Manliness. Brett McKay invited me over to help him out. He just started this website. And I watched him really shoot up in terms of traffic. I think now they get like 15 million visitors or page views a month. It’s pretty crazy the amount of traffic they get over there. But I was able to see how valuable information can really bring you in a lot of eyeballs and then you can use that. Once you got that audience, you can then start to create a business around that.
And that was became my goal whenever I started Real Men Real Style. I wanted to figure out ways that I could actually write and talk more about men’s style. And I still have the clothier around the side but it was something that I became much more interested in teaching, in educating and in helping men dress better, being able to use clothing as a tool to get what they want out of life.
And yeah, we did actually video. I found my voice on video. And since then, we created, you know, well over, you know, quite a few videos. So, I think what about 363 videos at this point on our YouTube channel. I think we’re closing in like 12 million views.
Antonio: So, pretty cool in terms of how people find our content and how videos that – I mean if you would have told me that I could put out a video on how to tuck in your shirt and it would get a hundred thousand views within a couple of days, it seems almost like kind of comical. But believe it or not, there’s a lot of guys that – they’re always looking for better ways to do the simple things because it actually they are self-conscious about it.
And for them to be able to find a channel that gives them this information and I don’t try to be pretentious about it. I’m not, you know, acting like I’m better than anyone. I simply, “Hey, let me give you these tactics, these little things that you can use so that when you give that presentation, when you give that speech, whenever you’re in front of the classroom that you feel better about yourself. You’re more confident.” And that leads to a lot of other great things.
Navid: Yeah, I mean that’s so inspiring. You took this little small kind of business and then took it to a whole another level also with your kind of online brand. And you were selling this custom clothing but now, actually you put out a content so other people found you. And they were kind of not – were they buyers you would say of the clothing? Or just they wanted the content?
Antonio: Yeah, that was thing is I learned very quickly that organic traffic is nice but it’s not always the best traffic. I mean there are – it depends on what site – I mean there are many people that would say you can get the same thing with poor quality pay-per-click traffic. However, I would say the organic or mostly coming for the content, I was capturing them in the process. I could have done a better job I think as well of capturing emails in the beginning. I wasn’t doing that. But it was very hard for me to monetize that traffic when I was also positioned myself as a bit higher and of an online custom clothier.
So, sure. I think whenever I – and I don’t really – I don’t take on new clients at A Tailored Suit partly because I’m focused – mostly because I’m focused over at Real Men Real Style. But I mean I was selling custom shirts for $250. So, your – this isn’t your entry point $50 custom shirts. You know, these were five times that. And so, I didn’t need to get a whole lot of customers and that was the great thing about what I was doing.
But on the other hand, I found that I really wanted to reach more people and when you have to buy 5 to $10,000 wardrobe, honestly, that’s a very small percentage of the world’s population. And I wanted to be able to reach a broader audience.
Navid: Oh, definitely. You can get in more to kind of the positioning side of things a bit later. But first kind of what had the most impact on the growth of your personal brand? Would you say that was kind of the YouTube videos you put out there online and that kind of skyrocketed things for you?
Antonio: That did. I would have to say that – I mean we’ve done quite a few things from info graphics to well-written contents. And the articles I was putting out especially with The Art of Manliness, I mean these were 2 to 3,000-word article. It’s very detailed. We’re doing a lot of research on them. But then when I started to put out videos, I really found that this is something that my audience really resonated with. And it just blew me away how they reacted to it, how they loved it. And so, that was just something once you find your winner, you just started to double down on it. And that’s what we did with video.
Navid: Yeah. I mean that’s – you put out like 200 videos in 200 days I read somewhere, right? It was –
Navid: …is that correct?
Antonio: Yeah, that is –
Navid: How was that like –
Antonio: It was – I had to do batch processing. So, you’re probably – your audience is probably a fan of Tim Ferriss. I know he’s talked about it but batch processing is been around a lot longer than Tim’s been around. And it’s a whole idea of doing – figuring – I mean the – what took the longest thing with the video wasn’t actually the filming of the video. It was actually preparing for the video.
So, I would spend time get everything, all the scripts written out of what I wanted to cover then get showered, get cleaned up, shaved, all that fun stuff. And then I would go in and shoot ten videos at a time and the great – that’s how I was able to put out 200 videos in 200 days.
I wasn’t scrambling and trying to shoot a video every day. I would do it maybe once a week, once every two weeks and I would have just this huge amount of content that we would then be able to edit. We also kept our editing to an absolute minimum at the beginning.
So, I feel like all my earliest videos, there almost no photos, no images in there. It’s just simply me talking to the camera. And I think it goes to show me now I think it would be harder to – it would be harder to get in because the quality I’ve had to up my quality as a few competitors have reached the scene. But in 2000 – you know, 2010 when we were first starting to put this stuff out there, there really wasn’t anyone talking about this.
Now – and it’s only been four years but already the – I’ve had to take my quality up a bit. And that’s the great thing is that we’ve been able to do that. But I learned very early that try not to edit. I don’t want to spend – I mean people don’t need to see explosions and have all these fancy colors and all the stuff flying in. When it comes down to it, they want solid information that solves their problems.
Navid: Yes. And you knew that because you figure out your audience obviously before and they asked you questions. But for someone who’s maybe starting out, what would you advise them to do to kind of know what they should put out? That’s kind of the – you knew exactly what you would put out on YouTube obviously that’s why you got so many hits and views to your site and to your videos. I mean every month – they – and you’re still getting ton of views on your YouTube channel for the first videos you put out there.
Antonio: Yeah, yeah. We’re still getting quite a bit. I mean the content that I create is evergreen and I never run out of topics because I listen to my audience. And they’re constantly giving me suggestions. So, if you can’t think of what to create a video on, simply go in to – I mean look in your industry and look what people are complaining about or the problems that they have. And look at them.
You probably know your industry well enough hopefully that you can make sure the questions that you’re answering are a bit evergreen that they’re going to be relevant with the next few years. And then just address it. Just answer it. Put it out there. And another thing that I do is I get very narrow in who – how I focusing on the question. So, I try to be very specific. If you go to a lot of websites, I don’t mean to pick on any but let’s just say Ehouse. I remember I go these websites, and I read an article there. And I feel less intelligent after I’ve read that article than I did when I started off because I’m like, “What did I just read?” There was no – and they wrote 500 words and there was no value there.
And so, we tried to get very specific and we realized that we’re going to cut off 95, maybe 98% of the audience but for that very specific person we’re targeting, this is exactly what we want to hear. So, we’ll talk about short and stout men, how they should – how – what kind of a suit they should look for? Now, if you’re tall and thin, this is not applicable or is it? Because a lot of guys will listen to it and say, “You know, oh, that’s just some good tips.” And then they write me and they say, “Hey, now can you make one for tall and thin or something like that?”
So, that’s where I find when people see that you actually care and that you get very specific like that, you can – it’s very powerful.
Navid: Yeah. You know, I completely agree and with that narrowing down on your topics and your niche obviously when you’re starting. So, I think you’ve done a great job with that from the beginning but you were also – you said that you didn’t really have a competition there but today, if someone kind of goes in to something, I think there’s always players around. So, how do you really stand out from others and really stand out in your niche?
Antonio: Well, even though – I mean that’s great if there’s competition. Anytime there is competition, that goes to show you there’s a market there. But there’s always a way to do it differently or to do it better. So, there is that saying you’re either first, you’re fabulous or you’re, you know, effed basically.
Navid: Yeah. [Laughter]
Antonio: I would say, you know, I was pretty fortunate – I wouldn’t say fortune because I put in a heck of a lot of work before. But I saw that there wasn’t a whole lot of great video content. There was one guy he was putting out – and he already had about 4 million views and I could have said, “Well, this guy is doing it.” But you know what? Honestly, it made me a little bit upset because I saw him when he only had like a million or two million views and then I saw him when he had 3 million, 4 million.
And my wife, she was just like, “Well, you just need to get out there and start filming. You’re getting upset about this. Why don’t you do something about it?” And so, I did. And now, lo and behold, the guy’s name – his name is Aaron Marino. He’s now a great friend and we’re actually running a business together.
Antonio: We’re going to do a live event together that only happened because we both – now, we can call each other and commiserate about some of the problems that only we know about and we face as content creators on YouTube in the men’s style arena. So, we’ve – you know, it’s one of those cool things that A) when you start to put out and create content, you actually become friends with those that are already doing it as well. And you start to, you know, brief [0:13:22] [Phonetic] things together.
Navid: Yeah, I have to move back a little bit because you moved in to a very interesting kind of niche with kind of this men’s style. And you come from a very small town. So, how – I mean why did you pick that specific niche? I mean I – I think it’s a great niche if you can really – you mean you position yourself well. You stand out there. You’re like have an amazing business today. But from the very beginning and why did you move in there like really found this kind of now is a passion of yours of course?
Antonio: You know, it wasn’t something that I initially start off and I knew I was going to get in to that direction. I would say men’s style in fashion and clothing, all that stuff is cool. I definitely seemed to know a lot about it because I think about it every day. I’m diving in to the content. I know a lot of people in the industry.
But what I really get excited is when I focus on helping men become better men and I can use my business to do good. And to me, it’s about helping men use clothing to get what they want out of life. And it’s funny, I just got off the call with a gentleman. He runs – what was the name of the website? It’s Triton – Triton Industry or Tricon – you know, Triton – in any case, he’s a – [Laughter] he’s a Navy SEAL running a security business down in Austin, Texas. And basically they trained first responders and military on weapons and tactics and things like that. I like to be able to go in to there and to offer value.
Now, I’m a former marine. So, it is something that I can speak the language. But what I love, you know, and what brings all of this together is that we can talk about really about – if anyone becomes, you know, Delta Force, Navy SEAL, any special, you know, a royal marine, anyone becomes one of these higher end special forces or anything in any military groups, they pay attention to the details.
They focus on higher – they’re usually trying to serve a higher purpose. And when I was in Iraq and we would work with security forces. There was always very interesting that even though we technically at some point, you know, you got almost [0:15:27] [Inaudible] enemies, but then we came together. And now, you know, with the current situation, it’s just crazy.
But the point is that a lot of these people are drawn to a higher server – a higher – serving a higher purpose. And when you’re around people like that whether they’d be missionaries, whether they’d be, you know, military personnel, whether they’d be a business people, it’s that shared belief that it does make a difference. Those little details matter and that’s what I get excited about when –
Antonio: …I’m working with my company is being able to help guys show that and be able to send that message through a clothing which is just one aspect.
Navid: Yeah, I mean that’s fantastic. But what would you say to someone that will go in maybe to sign on not like to the style or helping men but to something maybe a little bit more narrow like that and they’re not – they’re unsure if that will be profitable for them or there might be a lot of people in there. So, how they can they can hone in on their expertise and really own that niche?
Antonio: Okay. So, the question is, you know, they’re hesitant because it’s – they don’t think it profitable enough.
Navid: Yeah. Kind of they’re – maybe they have like for example you invented men’s style and there’s like a lot of people let’s say like why do you go in to that arena building an online business? They’re just a bunch of blogger showing kind of their street style and you know, this kind of stuff.
You know, there’s people – I mean I’ve followed some blogs from my country here and they have nothing like that like you have like in depth articles. You can really learn something. But well, some people just post photos which is great sometimes but might not really lead to a very profitable business unless you get picked off somehow.
Antonio: Well, you know, the fashion industry isn’t – it’s a huge – and we’re talking, you know, multi, multi-billion dollar business. And there are clothing companies that are I mean just making a killing in – I mean the fashion industry is huge. So, right there we know that there is money that we make.
Navid: For sure.
Antonio: However, you know, it depends on what your goals are. I mean if you’re all about just the money and the profit, I mean go in to an investment bank.
Antonio: I mean go to Wall Street. That’s where it’s at. Go to, you know, be close to the money. And believe me, they need, you know, more people, you know, I guess they need more wolves there, you know – [Laughter]
Antonio: …if that’s what your deal is. Go become – but I think most of us online, what we enjoy about it is the freedom. We enjoy the ability to be able to create something from basically nothing and see it scale up and see it really become something amazing.
So, to me, I would challenge their way of thinking. I mean if it’s an industry that you know that there is money to be made, I mean right now we’re just at the tip of the iceberg. And I look at so many fashion houses, so many online brands that do not have a good presence and can’t figure it out. And there are still a decade I think from actually making a big splash online.
So, I don’t want to be – I mean I definitely believe in short term profits. However, you know, if it’s something that I would have to, you know, have you seen the – I mean I get approached by all these companies that are doing basically vaping –
Antonio: …or cigarette, you know, that kind of like cigarette stuff, honestly, that’s – I know I could make short term money there but I’m not going to go there because I don’t believe in it. I’ve got kids that I don’t want to see, you know, using something and I know that there are some good points to it. But when it comes down to it, I don’t want to be associated with that. And I have the freedom to not go down that path.
But I think that there are so – so, there are just so much – it really is to me limited thinking if you can’t figure out a way to take, you know, guys like – well, just take Pat Flynn over at Smart Passive Income. People look at what he’s doing but really, you know, in many ways, he’s teaching people how to make money online with niches. I mean that’s very specific and right now, you know, those guys like Bluehost is huge if you break out his – you know, how much – where he’s making from, it’s Bluehost, there’s a huge percentage of that.
So, you know, does that say that everyone needs to go and be promoting, you know, servers and you know, hosting companies? No, you know, to me that’s just – they’re just really good right now at actually providing a monetary return for people that recommend them.
Antonio: Clothing companies are horrible at it. And I mean they’re getting better but we’re – it’s not like we’re moving towards a point which clothing companies are going to get worst. They’re going to get better and more sophisticated and eventually, they’ll realize that this is one of their best ways. And as the industry moves there, I want to already have established the beachhead.
So, you know, that’s where I see – I mean when it comes down to it, I want to have emails and have a strong audience because whether or not I want to sell them clothing or guess what, I can sell my audience. If they want to get a mortgage on a house, if they want to decide what bank to go with. Recently at Real Men Real Style, I’ve branched out. So, now we’re talking about business skills and living because I’m very aware that those other areas are more profitable.
However, the audiences in the email lists that I build up and I pay a lot less for, if you were to go try to acquire that person and you’re simply focused on the banking, you know, people are getting to the banking or the finance niche and they try to blog or create content there. It’s very competitive and it’s very hard to get your foot in the door. And it’s very hard even to pay for traffic because you’re competing against banks that have all the money.
In my sphere, there is not that competition that’s why I love it, it’s I can build and I can mass a huge audience of following and build that trust. So, a decade from now when they’re looking to purchase an automobile, well, guess what, I’ll be able to recommend one to them. And by then, the automobile companies hopefully will be a little bit farther along and they’ll have a great affiliate system set up where literally everyone that I referred to, you know, to go purchase a car, I’m getting a 2 to $3,000 commission.
Antonio: So, it’s also about looking at the big picture and building up an audience and realizing that if you build it up with the right way, the same way you said you’ve been following me for years, you know, why would you stop following me –
Antonio: …five years from now.
Navid: No, exactly. And I mean even before I got in to online business I knew about your site because I was interested in obviously, you know, style and stuff like that. I followed you. So, that’s kind of how I got in to you. And now, you do a lot of stuff and it makes sense because people who maybe buy in to style or maybe even dating and stuff like that, they’re also want to improve the other areas of life like social – other social areas like networking. They want to become maybe an entrepreneur or stuff like that. And that’s good [Laughter] to focus on it as well.
But you mentioned something really important here and that’s the audience and that’s what you build there – have been building from the very beginning. So, what’s working right now when it comes kind of through the audience building for you and all the content you put out there.
Antonio: Well, you know, I’ve never really focused on what works right now. I kind of look at it like black hat SEO in the –
Antonio: …same I guess for fashion. It’s fleeting. It changes. And to be honest, I don’t have – I mean you can get some big wins and there are people that – I think if the tip of the spear, those guys that are right out there actually making things happen, they can definitely – they’re going to get a lot of short term wins but then they’re going to have to reinvent themselves and go someplace else. I just think it takes a lot of energy.
So, I focus on what I think has worked for thousands of years which is building trust and building relationships. So, I do some things which aren’t super popular. I actually send emails out and I ask people to respond to me. Now, I don’t respond to every single person. I don’t. I have VAs that actually respond to everybody.
Now, they do this and they’ve been trained because I find that most people when they’re responding to me, they’re asking questions that I’ve already answered, videos that I’ve already created or they’re asking me something that to be honest, I’m probably not going to create something for quite a while. But I will add it to my list because I’m constantly building out databases.
Now, those three things I just told you, I don’t have to do it. I actually have people that I’ve trained up that can go through my email and they do a much better job because there was a time when I wasn’t answering any emails from random people just because I didn’t have the time. I had to focus on my business and make money. And that was a tough spot because I was working crazy hours trying to answer. I felt really bad that I wasn’t responding to people.
Now, anyone that emails me, every single person gets a response. And that’s because we’ve got systems in place. Now, technically, I don’t hit the send button but I did craft that draft email. I did write the article that we’re referring them to and at the end of the day, they don’t really care. You know what they care? That I help maybe solve their problem, help put them in a better position.
And by passing on that goodwill, I’m creating trust. I’m building a relationship. And I can then leverage that, you know, that right there is a timeless – I can then turn that into a sale. I can turn that into an affiliate link. I can turn that in just a recommendation. I can turn that – you know, I just referred – I don’t know.
I think I – bottom line, I just got 5,000 people on his list because I referred my audience to him and he wrote a book about how to dress taller. He’s a shorter guy and he writes for short men on how to dress, you know.
And so, I loved it because I was able to give value to my audience. They love the e-book. He was able to get value because I got – basically triple the size of his email list.
Antonio: And for me, it was a win because I actually got to send out an email that day that people loved.
Navid: Very – that’s interested. So, basically you respond – I mean with the help of your VAs, you respond to emails that the audience send to you since you have built up the database of people say you have an email list and they respond to kind of your request and they – when you have a question in there or maybe what they’re struggling with and so on. Is that correct?
Antonio: Yeah. So, we’re constantly, you know, trying to figure out and build out systems so that I can scale in the – and I use Infusionsoft that helps quite a bit with being able to scale individualism which is something that I think Jermaine Griggs has talked about. He’s actually taking Google search and he’s a very interesting gentleman that runs the website Hear and Play. And he’s a big Infusionsoft speaker.
But that right there, when you can start to scale individualism and you actually give people exactly what they want and you start to speak to them on a more personal term is a very powerful thing. Because if you are out looking for two products, one product costs $50 but it’s written for everyone in the world and it sort of solves your problem versus another one which costs twice as much but this is written very particular to your issues, you know, like how to dress for an interview if you are a young lawyer in Europe –
Antonio: …versus another one is, you know, how to dress for an interview.
Antonio: This one costs 10 bucks. The one for the young lawyer costs $20. Well, which one are you going to buy if you’re a young lawyer in Europe looking to dress for interviews? You’re going to – it does – I mean it’s a – you’re – even though they’re charging a 100% premium over here, you’re happy to pay it because it addresses your specific needs even if 90% of the content in here is the same as over here.
Navid: So, I mean I don’t know if you would like to share numbers of your email list but anyway, from the beginning like how did you build it up to this size that it’s now that your audience is so big that you get responses and they’re highly engaged and so on?
Antonio: So, my email list is just under a hundred thousand. And I would say we built it up I mean one at a time. I know that sounds really simple but celebrate when you get 10 people on your email list. Celebrate when you get a hundred people on your email list. Celebrate when you get a thousand. And it is something, you know, that’s so – having great opt-ins, I am a big fan of pop-ups. I remember reading I think it was Corbin – you know, the guys over at Fizzle.
Navid: Corbett Barr.
Antonio: Yeah, yeah, Corbett. And you know, I’ve met all of those guys. Great people. Really like what they’re doing. You know, Chase and you know, gosh –
Antonio: Caleb is going to kill me. I’m just hanging out –
Antonio: …I just had a beer with him in San Diego. And – but, you know, those guys are putting out some great stuff but I remember on one of – maybe it was – gosh, what is Corbett’s website? His own personal website. Do you know which one I’m talking about –
Navid: The first one, yeah.
Antonio: Before Fizzle –
Navid: It was –
Navid: …Think Traffic.
Antonio: Think Traffic.
Navid: Uh huh.
Antonio: So, I remember on Think Traffic they talked about this. And then some guy on the comment said that he hated pop-ups like the burning surface of the sun or something like that. It was like so intense. I remember just thinking, you know, every – because 95% of people there hated pop-ups. But when I use pop-ups, I doubled the size of my opt-in rate.
And I don’t care if you hate it. You know, if I’m – you – do you really hate pop-ups if all of a sudden, it pops up there and it gives you – I mean they’re giving you a great opt-in, you know, a great lead magnet –
Antonio: …and it actually solves your problem? I mean how can you hate this pop-up for just trying to remind you and be top of mind?
So, I think it’s really important that we remember we are not our audience. And it’s important with people’s limited attention spans to give them as many options as possible to take action and give you their email so that you can better help them.
Antonio: So, that was one – you know, we really did focusing on increasing the percentage of people that this is our website and the more of them that opt-in. So, having an irresistible lead magnet and – so that helped a lot. And also, making it so that there is multiple areas that we can, you know, we can opt-in. We have opt-ins at the bottom of the website, side of the website, on the homepage and we use the light box. I had experimented with many other things and I still continue experimenting because it does change.
So, we also work on getting in front of other people’s audiences. A number of people have talked about this. This is one of the best ways, probably one of the best audiences that I always seem to get in front of is Brett’s over at The Art of Manliness. And that’s because I do a guest post for him every single month. By doing that, I don’t, you know, I guess I could use a few other – there is some other tactics – LeadPages has what’s called lead boxes –
Navid: Oh, yeah.
Antonio: …and that’s where they can actually click. And I can be on somebody else’s website, be setting up a pop-up. I’ve received permission to do this but I just haven’t implemented it. But figuring out and getting in front of other people’s audiences and giving them something of value, So again, it’s a win-win situation is always something to basically shoot up numbers.
I’ve gotten, you know, thousands of people in a single day from something like that. But then it’s also about closing the backend of the bucket. So, a lot of the times, you’ll get people that will unsubscribed. That’s a natural process and in fact, I want people off my email list who don’t want to be there, who don’t want to hear from me.
You know, people write me back and they’ll say, “Hey, you know, can you just send me one email a month?” And I mean I appreciate that and eventually, I’ll have systems in place where maybe I got a list that I only email once a month. But right now, I’m trying to do at least a couple of times a week. I am studying up systems of where you can actually if you want more emails, I can do that. Or if you want less, we’re trying to work that right now. But I’m not, you know, the biggest company in the world.
Antonio: But I do try to email my list at least two times a week so it doesn’t go stale. If you think you’re doing your list a favor by not emailing them, big mistake because they’re going to forget who you are. And when you do email them, they’re going to wonder who in the world is this person, unsubscribed. And you may have the cure to cancer in that email and they’re going to miss it.
Navid: Yeah. I mean that’s a really great advice. Actually, a lot of people they think that they should wait a little bit. They get so many emails. But if you have something really great to offer, maybe a free guide you just put together, really great interview, whatever that would be, I mean why not just email them. Shoot them an email when you have something to say.
And so, I mean I’ve had number of people do say to me, “I mean I don’t email my list until maybe, you know, every other week or every month or something like that.” That’s too long. So, I like that you said that actually, yeah.
Antonio: Yeah. I mean but make sure you have something to say. I would recommend there is a difference between auto-responder and in a sense, broadcast emails. I send out too many broadcast emails. You need to probably work on your auto-responder series. I’m waiting for somebody to actually create a business that is nothing but creating amazing auto-responders for people.
Because to me, it’s just – it is so valuable to our business but so many of us just don’t have time and we also want it done right. I want them to follow best practices, yada yada yada. I mean there probably is some business out there that does that but yeah, being – it’s – but when you create a great auto-respond – my wife has one with her website, Bilingual Kids Rock. And this auto-responder goes on for, I don’t know, probably four months, five months. She doesn’t – but email them like one but once or twice a month. Or no, she emails them about two to three times a month.
So, there are some big periods. But it’s always something of value and what’s cool – the reason she did that is she just doesn’t have – she’s raising three kids and –
Antonio: …she doesn’t always have time to go in there and check. But it’s something that she’s constantly touching base with them. So, it doesn’t have to be – you don’t have to email your list every single day. I’ve got friends that do that and that works for some people. However, you know, you’ve got to find what works for you.
And the easiest way to do is simply just create that one auto-responder series and then boom. You can walk – I think that best I’ve ever heard Chris Guillebeau from what I understand has one that’s like 300 – literally, it’s one every day for a full year. I mean that’s pretty amazing.
Navid: Yeah. I think – yeah, is that a free one? Or is that as a course that goes on also for like 3 – for about a year? But that’s amazing.
Antonio: I’m not – yeah. And you think of it, you create one time, you let it run.
Antonio: And you’re just emailing people. And I’ve had some that are – within – the ones I have like that that are literally like 90 sections long are for people that take my courses. And I got those set up for my course and they actually interact with a private website.
So, that’s a whole – that’s one of my ways I monetize probably – actually more than half of my revenue comes from products I’ve created, information products, courses, books, all of those, you know, of various revenue streams like that. And I always try to – I find that getting those emails that are very value add and relevant for me is a great way to run a course.
Navid: Okay, that’s great. So, what was your kind of opt-in on your site called? Like so that irresistible opt-in offer that you have and people just sign up?
Antonio: Well, I’ve got a 47-page e-book and on men’s style called The 7 Deadly Sins of Style. So, I did invent that. You know, they’re supposedly were what, 7 deadly sins there. So, it’s a little bit catchy and people are curious.
I also use the negative – you know, the negative approach. Studies have shown that using the negative approach, you’ll get more people – people are more curious if they’re going to lose something, they would react to it stronger than if they’re going to gain something. So, you may offer – you know, I could offer the 7 tips to dressing better. It’s not going to do as well as the 7 mistakes you’re probably making.
Navid: Okay. That’s great. So, just to clarify that you are – where are you getting the most traffic right now to your website? Is that from – I mean maybe your email list right now, Google, or is it maybe –
Antonio: Well, it’s going to be Google organic. That’s –
Antonio: …where – right now, we’ve done – we probably have 1200 articles on Real Men Real Style. We’ve got just tons of great solid content.
And this stuff gets picked up, brings me a lot of traffic. That’s not to say no, I get – it’s my bet – that’s not my best traffic. The best traffic I get is from YouTube in terms of qualified leads that come to my email opt-in page and give me their email and then turning to being a buyer, definitely YouTube.
Navid: Okay. And then guest posting a little bit as well. If you guest post for The Art of Manliness, obviously, you get some traffic from there.
Antonio: And I’ve been guest posting every month with The Art of Manliness for, I don’t know, 7 years.
Antonio: So, yes. So, we’ve got, you know, all – we’re like what, that’s 70 to 80 articles over there.
Antonio: So, yes. So, I do get –
Navid: That’s some great backlinks. [Laughter]
Antonio: Yeah, yeah. And it’s – but it’s being consistent. It’s providing value. I don’t charge for it, you know. And I’ve written some great content. I mean he’s offered to pay me but it’s really – I – that would to me defeat like I do it because I truly believe in his mission. And that’s another thing. Make sure that when you’re choosing opportunities your people to guest post with, really make sure that you can say hell, yeah to it.
Not just, “Oh, that seems like a good opportunity.” But you want to be able say, “Hell, yeah.” You want to be really excited about, you know, who you’re going to be working with.
Navid: Yeah. And what would you say like you came from a very small town and building all these relationships online which is very important to building a successful brand and business. Was that ever a struggle for you? Or did that came kind of naturally for you in the beginning too?
Antonio: Well, we connect with people in various ways. So, most people wanted to just simply send an email and then get this person to bend over backwards over them and dedicate hours to promoting them and all of other stuff. But oftentimes, one thing I find a secret weapon is not the iPhone here but actually just simply the telephone. Calling people, having a personal connection and learning about them, actually being interested in them and their story and taking a personal interest in them and setting up the time to make that happen.
Now, it is something that I’m pretty selective about who I interview with, who I talk with, who I spend time with because that’s a very limited resource. But it is something that I feel is important. Another thing, go to live events. This year, I went to every month for the first six months this year, I was going to a live event and interacting with other human being. Shaking hands, meeting them in person, getting them and building – improving the strength of that connection.
It’s so much easier to build a connection even if someone is giving a keynote speak. You can wait there in line and there’s – you maybe the tenth person in line but I can tell you that if they’re that hard to reach, that it’s – you’re going to have a much bigger impact than sending an email.
Antonio: And a lot of people, you know, they just think that the email is not the only path. Twitter actually is a pretty good way. I use Twitter not to really build traffic or send, you know, to send traffic or anything but I find it – it’s a great way to get around gatekeepers and be able to interact and actually talk with real people.
Navid: I completely agree. Twitter is great to actually build this kind of initial contact with someone.
Navid: Maybe getting on their radar or maybe retweeting their content or something like that. That’s what I primarily use Twitter for as well. Not really for – it’s not that – sometimes you can get traffic if you have a lot of people in your post but mostly just maybe say, “Hi, great post,” or whatever that would be. And just get on their radar.
Antonio: Yeah. It’s – you know, you’ve got to find the path of least resistance. Usually people that have a lot to offer are setting up barriers around themselves. I know I’ve had to set up barriers. And you want to find a way to be able to break through that barrier and be able to, you know, add value.
So, if you’re looking to reach out to somebody, it’s not about you. It’s about how you can possibly add value to them. And don’t just say, “How can I help you?” It’s more of, “Hey, I see that you’re doing this and that you definitely could be doing it better.” You know, I was just talking with my friend, Tom Morkes over at Insurgent Publishing. Now, he’s working with John Dumas, me and him. We’re all partners on a website called High Speed Low Drag. We help military veterans transition out of the service.
Now, normally – and Tom will be the first one to say that John is a little bit further ahead. If your audience isn’t familiar with John Dumas over at the Entrepreneur On Fire –
Navid: He’s part of the summit too. So, yeah.
Antonio: Okay. Yeah, he’s kicking butt doing amazing things. And – but the thing with John is that he’s setting up a lot of barriers. And one of those barriers, you know, if you want his time, you usually need to be part of fire nation which isn’t, you know, the cheapest program to be a part of. Or you’ve got – you’ve got – you’ve really got to get an introduction to him now because he get so many people want his time.
However, Tom is able to pull when he realizes that John is a vet and a former army officer as well. So, Tom is a former army officer, John is a former army officer, they connect. Then let’s do something together. We all want to help veterans. Well, let’s actually form this company. And Tom is now the CEO of the company. We all are equal partners on it. But when it comes down it, John and I are both really busy with our main businesses. So, Tom is taking the lead in this business.
And now has direct access with John whenever he needs him in order to make things happen. And that’s how you build I think a solid relationship with somebody as you work with them on a project which is their passion. And they don’t necessarily have time for. I’ve talked with Michael Stelzner over at Social Media Examiner.
Normally, I don’t think he has a lot of time for people but instantly I got Wisconsin in common with him. And I realized he’s trying to be a better dad. I’m trying to be a better dad. Let’s talk about that because that’s a passion for him –
Antonio: …and something that not a lot of people latch on to. And in a sense, we were able to have a meaningful conversation at blog world specifically about that and what he’s working on with some of his projects.
Navid: Yeah. That’s a really, really great tips actually. And really finding this common ground with someone and also, I mean collaborating with others that always work essentially if you’re coming from kind of this genuine standpoint that you really want to help them provide value. But actually something – does – you bring up an interesting point. You have so many projects going on creating so much content on a consistent basis.
Let’s get in to a little bit of your systems you set up for doing all of these which I think the audience would be interested in to know how – I mean when they – moving their head a little bit in to their business, they can also reach to this point when they have VAs and so on.
Antonio: Well, you know, it all starts with your first V – I mean first it starts with yourself.
Antonio: So, you need to – one thing I really like and I’ve got it right in front of me is the Eisenhower Matrix. So, I have two categories at the top. I’ve got urgent, not urgent and then over on the left, I’ve got important, not important. So, what is urgent and important, I have to do and I have to do today or I have to do in the next few days.
Oftentimes, what is not urgent but important is eventually moving over to urgent and it would be great if I did that ahead of time so that I could do it right and that it didn’t actually cause stress in my life. What I – what you need to cut off and identify and actually be truthful to yourself about is what is urgent and non-important and what is not urgent and not important and why are you doing those things.
So, in 2002, I threw out my television. I still don’t have a television as the reason being – I mean I want to – I want – I’ve had people tell me I could be on a reality show. That’s a much – I don’t even – I don’t watch reality television. I have no idea really what that stuff is. I do have an idea of what it is but I don’t watch it because I don’t have time for it. As much as I want to – as much as I love it – as much as I love sports, I don’t have time to sit down and just watch this and to veg out.
That’s not – I mean if I want to relax, I’m spending time with my kids. I’ve got three kids, another one on the way and they’re going to be gone in and out of the house before I know it. And I’ve only got so much time with them.
I mean really look at where you’re spending your time, look at where you’re spending your money and that’s where your values and your priorities where at. So, for me, you know, it becomes very easy to say no to things. So, that’s the other thing is no should become your default answer to most opportunities or projects coming your way.
Everyone wants a little bit of your time especially when you start to get good at things, when you start to be able to, you know, your business starts to hum.
You’ve got to know to be able to say no and you’ve got to also have a – you know, it’s kind of a negotiating term but what’s it your but no, your best alternative too when you negotiate agreement. You know, so for me it’s like how much is my time where – my virtual assistants know – I probably need to up this but for the last few years I’ve told them my time is worth 500 bucks an hour. If the problem is less than that, please do not bother me with it. You need to – so I want to empower my team to be able to solve those problems.
So, probably your next question is, “Well, how do you get a team? How do you start working with them?” Well, first, you start to section off things which you can hand off to somebody and that are going to offer value and you’ll be able to see a return on investment. So, the first person I ever brought in to my team and I initially started at $200 a month part-time just work was actually my technician. And he was basically installing WordPress on the – you know, he was managing my servers.
But that saved me so much time that I wasn’t having. And this is when I was using a basic HTML site back in 2008. It saved me so much time that I wasn’t having to log in and do that kind of stuff. So, once I found that, I was able to break off. I eventually expanded him to, you know, $500 a month then a thousand dollars a month.
Now, he’s my, you know, my fulltime tech – I mean right now, we’re having website issues. And I’m in this interview with you, he is dealing with the website. Other – you know, it’s like things like that, I’m happy to have off my plate because they don’t add a whole lot of value. And I need to have someone trusted, who can handle that type of stuff.
And so, every time you’re looking to bring somebody on, make sure that you’re sectioning things in your life, and you’re creating checklists of okay, I was spending a lot of time on social media.
I mean I was spending an hour a day in Facebook, an hour a day on YouTube, 20 minutes a day on Twitter. All of these things were adding up. So, if I could hire somebody and they could do all of these things right here like, then that would be worth me hiring them. And I already have the checklist of the 10 things that they would be doing. Yes, they’re not as quick as me. They’re maybe not as good as me. I always – sometimes I read the responses that my VAs given, I’m like, “Ah!” I could have done better.
But you know what? When it came down to it and it happened, I didn’t have to spend the weekend answering YouTube comments and I got to spend it with my kids. So, you know, it starts with the one, first, organizing yourself. Creating checklists of items – you create a “Do not do list”.
Antonio: I mean literally a list of things that you should not be doing. And that’s what – and oftentimes, it’s those things which seemed urgent but they’re really not that important. You know, getting back to people on YouTube when it comes down to it, it’s not as important as actually closing, you know, creating more sales for my company so that I can provide a living for people. I mean as much I want to respond to people on YouTube, that is what it comes down. And my VAs, I trained them and they’re doing a better job than I would because I just wouldn’t be doing it.
Navid: Yeah, definitely. So, you focus on what’s your – the best time which is probably the content creation and that stuff you take care of I guess like shooting. And you got to be in front of the camera. You’re going to write the script probably for your videos. I mean that’s what you do I assume still.
Antonio: Yeah, there are certain things in my company that only I can do. And by systemizing everything else, it frees me up to be able to do those things.
Navid: Yeah. Okay, that’s great. So, let’s get in to a little bit with the – kind of the monetary things but also the premium side because you position yourself from the beginning, a little bit as a premium brand. And especially with your first company there, A Tailored Suit. And did that translate also in to what you’re doing now with Real Men Real Style like that you have more of a premium brand in the marketplace?
Antonio: You know, I would say I’m still – I think of myself as more going after the everyday mandate, the regular guy. Definitely with A Tailored Suit when it came to online custom clothiers, most of them, try to compete on price.
Antonio: And that’s a big mistake. So, one thing I maybe do have an advantage because I did go to business school. So, I read all the boring books by Michael Porter and all those guys at Harvard. And what Michael Porter talked about in his classic book Competitive Strategy which if you haven’t read it, as a business owner or entrepreneur, you should. It was written way back in the 19 – late 1970s or early 1980s I believe. But he talked about, you know, there’s three ways you can compete.
You can either compete on price. You can compete with actually providing amazing service or you can offer a unique – a position in the market which you provide in unique, you know, area. And so, I’ve always been a fan of – I don’t want to compete on price. I just feel that that’s unsustainable. It’s something that you really have to be able to go towards high numbers.
And I would much – I feel that most people forget that they can provide greater service, provide something that is perceived as service or they can provide a unique area.
And I’d like to hit on these two. It’s very rare. You can oftentimes focusing on one of those three. I think it’s great that if you can somehow focusing on two, and the two that I decided to focusing on, it’s not low price. It’s going to be customer service and it’s going to be providing a unique area niche. And that’s where if you look at a lot of my products, we’ve really tried zero down.
So, one of my best books on Amazon actually is how to dress if you’re a large man. Now, for the longest time, large men were complaining that no one – if you look at models on any – you look at any other companies that and the models they put out there on the images, they’re not large men. They’re not overweight men. They’re not – I mean there are these models that of what I guess the ideal man should look like when really that’s not reality.
So, I actually wrote a book that specifically dealt. And I remember putting it out there like blew away all the sales of all my other books because it was so specific even though it targets a small demographic. When they see that book, it actually resonated very strong with them. So, that’s one way that we’ve been able to put out.
And I also – I could probably even niche down even more like focus specifically on consultants or lawyers. I’m constantly doing research. So, whenever someone signs up for my email list, I’m asking them, you know, to further identify who they are, how old they are, what’s their profession. So, slowly just we’re constantly learning more about our audience. And by doing that, I can then start to create sales pages and products that actually narrowly laser point those type of people.
Navid: Hmm, very interesting. So, you use kind of the tool like SurveyMonkey or something like that and ask them questions in there so they fill it up –
Antonio: I use Infusionsoft.
Navid: Ah –
Antonio: Infusionsoft allows me to – so, first, I collect their email and name. This – so, they’re already in my system at this point. Then I send them to a page in which I ask for more information. It doesn’t matter if they fill it out or not because I’m already going to put them in the email sequence –
Antonio: …but 70 to 80% of people still fill this out even though they don’t have to. And when they tell me this information, then I can actually take that and create a sales page.
See, my products to be honest, one of my main flagship product, A Man’s Guide to Style, that right there and it can meet the needs of a wide variety of men. But my sales page for that currently right now is very general.
So, my goal is if you go through my funnel and if you identify yourself as a student who’s 22 years of age, I want to actually send you to a sales page which identifies not – I’m not going to get specific solely on your age but I would say, you know, maybe that you – hey, are you a young man who just graduated from school or about to graduate? When I start off that way, it’s like, well, yeah, that is me you know.
And so, I’m able to craft the sales page to be able to identify his specific problems because when you tell somebody their problems in more detail than what they can describe their own problem, they’re like, well, they assume you have the answer.
Navid: Yeah, I mean that’s an amazing sales page then – they feel so compel to just purchase. And I mean obviously – I mean Infusionsoft is great. I have some friends that use this as well. And you can do pretty much everything in their membership sites and all that.
But the reason why I mention SurveyMonkey is because probably as for starters, it’s very easy to set up. If you use AWeber which you can maybe do the service right in there, you can still use SurveyMonkey and send them there inside of your email. So, that’s –
Navid: …just to clarify.
Antonio: No, no. SurveyMonkey, I mean even thinking about this –
Antonio: …I mean what we’re talking about here a little bit more advanced –
Antonio: …techniques. I mean if you’re not collecting emails, start collecting emails now which many people are not doing. They’re not using pop-ups or anything like that or not –
Antonio: …providing some great, you know, great lead magnet. So, get that first. But these are things as you start to get 10 opt-ins a day, 20 opt-ins a day, then you want to be thinking, okay, this is going – it’s not going to get smaller. How can I better segment the list to be able to scale individualism? Infusionsoft is cool but there are other options out there. ONTRAPORT is another option.
Antonio: But these aren’t cheap. I mean you’re going to be spending – I mean Infusionsoft is a $2000 starter fee.
Antonio: But if you’re already – but this – that’s good because, you know, if you’re not making $10,000 a month from AWeber, you know, you don’t – in my – in my opinion, you don’t have any business to go to Infusionsoft because Infusionsoft, you’re – it’s none of just that $2,000 starter fee but it is a bit complicated and you would want to hire a coach.
Antonio: And you’re going to spend $10,000 on a coach.
Navid: Yeah, definitely. But you mentioned here with your book as well, was that also repurpose content you had from all the amazing content you put out on your blog? Or was that new content that you put out there?
Antonio: Well, the books on Amazon were all – it’s fresh content but oftentimes what I say is I’ve said it before.
Antonio: I mean with the way I’m – I mean if you really want, you could probably spend 24 hours – I mean an hour a day for a month and read through all of my articles, watch my videos. I mean at the point, you would probably only get through 5%, maybe 10% of my –
Antonio: …content. But I mean there are many people who never buy anything from me and come away and build amazing wardrobes, start dressing better, see great results. I’m happy for that because – but there are other people whose time is very valuable. Or if they want to own the content or they want to have unique access to me. And those people are willing to pay a little bit more.
And because of all the people that I’ve given away some great solid content, you – that one, they’ve already tasted it, they know the quality of it. And other times, I get people to come in and just buy my products because they somehow want to pay me back. I mean literally, you know, they want to just give back –
Antonio: …to – because they’ve gotten so much.
Navid: Yeah, that’s very nice [Laughter] when those people come around for sure. But have you ever offer kind of consulting or coaching as well? Or was it just the online products since you kind of focus on the audience so you ask them questions so they came back and they really wanted this kind of specific products you create for them?
Antonio: You know, I actually have a coaching program right now but it’s a business coaching program and I just closed it up. So, I do do things like that like. However, I try to stay away from coaching. And one of the reasons I do is coaching just is not scalable to be honest.
Antonio: It’s something that – I mean if you’re just starting off like what we’re doing with High Speed Low Drag. John Dumas, me and Tom, we are offering coaching with this. It is not scalable. We know that. However, we wanted to test the business model. We wanted to prove it. And so, the guys are paying 3 grand for 6 months access.
Actually, it’s a deal. I mean some of the stuff that they’re getting access to, the number of people and the meetings and everything. However, it is something that we’re trying to be very attuned to the fact that it’s not scalable and to move away from that. However, if you’re just starting off, you know, coaching maybe something that – it does your trading time for dollars and –
Antonio: …that’s the one thing I don’t like about coaching.
Navid: Yeah. No, I completely agree. And I mean that again, $3,000 is like more premium positioning there as well. But if you’re starting, you need to listen in to your audience. You need to get to know them. And you already got that since you built that from the very beginning and ask them questions. And like recorded your video. So, it’s much easier now to really create to have this perfect products for your audience obviously as you grow.
So, if we can move along kind of to the last question here, I mean I’m really enjoying the content so far you’re sharing with my audience here. But if you are building an online presence and personal brand from scratch, what like three to five things would you consider provide the most ROI for your time and money? You know, that’s the biggest struggle I have from the start like the very – like the time and money was the biggest issue for me having a job and so on.
Antonio: Alright. Well, I would say that, you know, you need to have a home base. So, spend your time. Spend a bit of money. And get a good-looking website. I think when I looked at the interview with you, Navid, it was something I look at your website, I complemented you on it. You have a beautiful online presence.
It gives you a lot of credibility versus someone that I mean literally has an incredibly ugly website, it just really takes away from the overall feel in brand. So, have a home base where you can send traffic, where you can send people, where you can collect and build your audience and send people to.
The next thing is you want to think how can you start to build the audience. One way is to go after other people’s audiences. And the best way to do that is to figure out how can you add value to this person. Many of us are out here, you know, we don’t have big staffs. We’re always looking for talented people. So, you’re going to be in many times bartering. You’re going to be giving away your best, maybe some of your best content, your best, you know, some time. You’re going to be helping them solve a problem.
And what this person is going to do is, you know, it’s going to enact the law of reciprocity. They’re going to want to give back to you. So, they’re going to shamelessly promote you. They’re going to get you in front of their audience. And if you’ve got a unique position that – let’s say, you know, one thing I really need is a Facebook – I would say Facebook image creator because I have right now a person that creates thumbnails for me but I find that certain thumbnails and certain images do really, really well on Facebook. Other ones don’t.
And to me there were certain things that go in to a great Facebook image. And it would just make sense like – so if somebody came in and say, “Hey, you know, I actually…” especially, you know, I’m not so much Facebook focus and I would use those images for other places, but if someone sees that, “Hey, you’ve got a hundred thousand fans on Facebook and I really think we could help you – you know, I come in – I’ve already created these two images for you. What do you think? I mean could you use them?”
And they’re simply – you created these thumbnails that are promoting their own best articles. And so, you’ve already shown value. You’ve shown what you can do. You’ve given this to them. And I mean that right there, you’re not asking for anything from them. You’re simply wanting to give these and add value. You show a unique talent for something they’re very weak on. And then it’s like, “Oh, these are great, you know. Thank you. I’d love to use this.”
You know, it’s like, “Oh, well, let me know – you know, I may – you know, I’m building a company like this. I would love to be able to create these for you. And you know, just as long as you can give me some honest feedback.” And that’s, you know, a unique angle. You’re building yourself up and you’re building your presence. And they’re going to be, you know, your biggest advocate eventually if you’re able to show how – you know, it’s like, “Okay, well, you notice how when these ones I created for you got 25 shares, got, you know, 3,000 likes. Well, one thing you – we need to actually send them to your website.”
And you can start to show other ways to add value. And then they – when they actually pay you for the service, they’re getting a known – they’re getting a – they know they’re going to get a return on the investment. Versus most of the time when we hire people or we look to partner with somebody, it’s a risk. So, you’re eliminating the risk. So, that would be, you know, I know that was only two things but I think that if they did those two things, they could really knock it out the park.
Navid: Yeah, I think that’s fantastic final words here as well. So, Antonio, where can people connect more with you? Where would you like people to go and check out –
Antonio: Just go to –
Navid: …more of your amazing work?
Antonio: …just go to Real Men Real Style. Go to my contact form. I have a little bit of fun with it. And check out, you know, how I’ve set up some barriers. So, only those that are serious can reach out to me. And Navid, I think that would be probably the best place for them to start.
Navid: A bit challenge audience like if anything they should do right now like – what do you think?
Antonio: You know, I always just say take action. And that’s something again and again I see people fall in to this analysis paralysis.
I mean if this is – if you’ve listened to a hundred podcasts but if you haven’t been taking action and getting things done, you really need to stop. Take it fast from information and just make things happen.
Navid: Yeah, that’s great. So, thank you so much, Antonio for coming on here, sharing so much valuable information.
Antonio: You’re welcome, Navid. Take care. Bye-bye.
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